The current laws are in desperate need of reform and need to have duration limits set and allow current people paying lifetime alimony to stop paying alimony at some point. Why? The current alimony laws in Florida are definitely ANTI-marriage and ANTI-family! The current laws allow a woman in her 30's to receive permanent alimony for life. The current laws encourage women receiving permanent alimony to cohabitate for years and not get married. The current laws put good, caring, and responsible fathers like myself in dire financial situations where they MUST support the ex-wife before they support their children.

I got married at the age of 19 and got divorced at the age of 34 in Florida and was ordered to pay permanent alimony for LIFE. I was ordered by a Judge that I must continue to support my ex-wife before supporting my children. My ex-wife, a perfectly healthy woman and perfectly capable of working, started receiving permanent lifetime alimony 10 years ago at the age of 33.

Unless the laws are changed, my ex-wife and many like her will continue to abuse the system and receive alimony for the rest of their lives. My ex-wife refuses to remarry (even though she has been in a relationship lasting over 6 years and was proposed to by her cohabitant boyfriend) because she does not want to stop receiving alimony for life and also because gets the benefit of being supported by her boyfriend and by her ex-husband. Unless a person is totally disabled, alimony should NOT be permanent and should only be given for a limited time to get someone back on their feet.

The only “real opponents” to alimony reform are family law attorneys like Mr. Manz. Those attorneys have absolutely NO interest in helping “families” and instead just want to keep their clients fighting in court for a “lifetime” so they can have a continuous stream of income.

Whether Mr. Manz himself, or the Florida Bar's PR firm wrote the words to which he signed his name, he must have been chuckling a little, knowing just how many people he thinks might actually be taken in by cloaking the wolf in sheep's clothing.

Florida Alimony Reform was formed out of a movement of folks from all walks of life who had finally grown tired of the unbridled legal abuse which is destroying us, our families and our lives....all at the enrichment of lawyers and the family law support system money machine (accountants, therapists, vocational evaluators, etc...) under the sheep disguise of "compassion".

Divorce is a tragic and unfortunate reality of modern society. And to the extent it can be mitigated or prevented, it should be. Hwever...don't go looking for the Florida Bar Divorce Prevention Program....you won't find it. The Divorce industry churns out millions of dollars in revenues from incessant lititgation. And Permanent Alimony is the best generator of all....why proceedings can be reinitiated at ANY time - the case is NEVER $ettled!

For Mr. Manz, to characterize the typical alimony recipient as "Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farm" - the poor helpless female who stayed home and can't work for a living, is anitquated, outdated, and quite frankly insulting to the modern capable, responsible, liberated working woman. We live in times where most families require two incomes just to meet the bills and pay the exorbitant prices of living that come with living under a blosted government. And the most disgusting of all permanenet alimony cases are where the ex-spouse either does work and make a good income, or is capable of doing so, and yet is awarded permanent alimony.

And how can it be good for Florida for alimony payors to support two households, live in often abject poverty, be driven into bankruptcy themselves, and have any disposible income that might be left after all of this, be devoured by the lawyers and the family law system every time a new motion is litigated?

It is not uncommon at all for permanent alimony cases to be re-litigated every few years, each case taking a few years to be resolved, and then relitigated a few years later....all generating tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars of endless legal and ancillary fees which bankrupt one if not both parties. Not to mention the acrimony and ill will that are engengered by these hostile actions which only fuel the fire and generate more fees for the attorneys and the system.

No boys and girls....Mr. Manz is NOT, and I repeat NOT...looking out for the welfare of the poor Florida Family.

Families do not benefit from the primary breadwinner being bankrupted and destroyed by the agony and disincentive of endless and back-breaking litigation. Fanmilies do not benefit by disincentivizing ex-spuoses receiving alimony from getting remarried or seeking employment or improvement in their lives so they can move on. Families do not benefit from kids who's parents have nothing left to support them with because they are broke from litigation. Fanmilies do not benefit when Breadwinners cannot retire because they can't affor to go to court to plead their case, or pay the bills of the failed motions when they lose. Families do not benefit when the alimony payor's second wife becomes liable financially for the husband's alimony obligations.

Other states (such as Massachusetts and Texas) have actually passed an implenented REAL progressvity in their alimony laws, which provide realistic goals, limits to litigation and family damage, and ioncentive for the divorced parties to move on with their lives.

Make no mistake. Aliomony Reform is coming.

For Mr. Manz and the Florida Bar Family Law section to support eh current laws is the equivalent of a dentist feeding Jolly Ranchers to a 7-year old and hiding the toothbrush. Wake up Florida and follow the money....you'll find in the the pockets of Mr. Manz and Florida Family Law

Where to start with this ridiculous, one size fits all law.
How can the children be affected? Child support is different than Lifetime alimony. Not even related.
After a divorce half the assets go to either party so both parties start on par. Sure, one person may have a head start because of a career, maybe, but lifetime alimony. This "law" only encourages the party receiving it to avoid work. In todays society there is no longer any significant encouragement to get married again. If I am getting a lifetime pension, why get married? And those imposible to prove changes passed a few years ago do not help when one is trying to hide their living arrangements.
In my case there were no children, so my blood boils when I hear these jackasses bring that into the argument. Once again, why is a one size alimony supposed to fit all instances.
The law must be changed and put a cap on the time. One half to even 2/3 the time of the marrige is more than enough time to get the other party on their way in the worst case scenarios. How does lifetime alimony end? Back to court you have to go if you loose your job or retire or anything else happens. This is just to get the lawyers more money by keeping people in the mill. Lets free up the court system and get people out of it. Divorce isn't a crime but the laws of Florida make it worse than a crime.
David Manz is on the take and corrupt if he can keep a straight face with his illogical comments. Wake up! Who is he fooling with his comments/arguments.

It seems the Chairman Manz of the Family Section of the Florida Bar has done his best to continue to line the pockets of his and his equally self-serving legal sisters and brothers who practice law in the state of Florida. (Full disclosure: My Father is an attorney)

While I agree that there are certain long-term cases where the wife was home raising kids while the husband was earning the living, there are many others, like mine, where we were married for 12.5 years, both working and raising children too. In fact I was privileged enough to have the judge award me custody of our two minor (at the time) children. In addition to the award, she also penalized me with permanent alimony.

His statement that “Florida enjoys some of the most progressive alimony laws in the nation,” could not be further from the truth. Perhaps, if he meant progressive in the ways that the laws, as currently written, could screw you then I would agree wholeheartedly. But then, red-light cameras as a form of revenue for cities could be construed as progressive as well. For example: The income that my new wife brings in could be factored in to the total amount of my household income that the ex-wife could draw alimony from. That certainly is progressive, and innovative, too. But more importantly, it is just offensive, and morally wrong.

He continues, “Nevertheless, Floridians for Alimony Reform sought to undermine this hard work, which would have had disastrous effects. Changes to alimony laws would strain our already-overwhelmed court system…it would also increase attorneys' fees and costs for all spouses, affecting anyone who seeks a divorce.”

Based on this last sentence alone, which incidentally is untrue, I am surprised that the Florida Bar family section was not leading the parade as we went to Tallahassee to meet with legislators. At the end of the day, all the Florida Bar really has in mind is Billable Hours.

He makes a final critical mistake in his claim that Florida Alimony Reform members are a small, one-sided group of Floridians. On the contrary, we are your fathers and mothers. We are your neighbors. Your brothers and sisters. Your stepmothers and stepfathers. The doctor down the street. The Alzheimer patient who is unable to work but still permanently required to pay. We are salesmen and women. Firefighters and Police Officers. Airline pilots and flight attendants. We are business owners, and employees. We are journalists, both male and female. In fact, looking around in newsrooms everywhere, I am certain there are many who would fit right in. There are even lawyers who are members. And many others who support loved ones who are saddled with an unjust burden.

So, at the end of the day, when the final accounting is complete, it’s clear that the Florida Bar Family Division has many different horses in this race. They fail to realize that as they earn income (billable hours) by putting people into these situations, they would also be able to earn more income (billable hours) helping clients to modify their alimonies. By getting on board and helping to change the status quo, of Florida’s alimony laws, they could help to give lawyers a good name again. Perhaps at that point, they might be able to sleep well at night, knowing they have helped to change the antiquated and unjust alimony laws of the State of Florida.

The law absolutely needs to be reformed. No able-bodied individual should be entitled to a lifetime income from another individual. Allowing that to happen makes a mockery of the concept of a "no fault" divorce, as the one who pays certainly is being punished for the remainder of their lifetime.

I became minutely concerned with this topic, having recently entered the divorce process. We have been married almost 22 years and have 2 children. She has worked outside the home for 15 of those years, including part-time for the last 5. We both have equivalent education. Given that I earn much more than she does, I absolutely recognize the need for some short-term assistance to get her transitioned back into the full-time workforce. But short-term should be the only available option, given her education and work experience. However, she has the availability of permanent alimony available as a weapon in our proceedings, to attempt to strong arm me into giving her a greater share of marital assets in exchange for not pressing for permanent alimony. She refuses to look for full-time work now, because it will impede her ability to prepare for the job she really wants as a teacher. If I were to lose my job, I wouldn't have the option of cherry picking a job, but would have to use savings, with a combination of whatever work was available, to provide for my family. Those getting divorced and making less than their ex-spouse she not be a special, protected class of people entitled to benefits that are provided to no one else in our society.

With my research through the Florida Alimony Reform group and reading through the stories of those negatively affected by Florida's antiquated laws, I fear what the ultimate outcome of my situation will be. This issue creates great animosity between my soon-to-be ex and I, when our primary focus should be the well-being of our children, and moving on with our lives. Meaningful reform that provides predictable outcomes, and limits ongoing litigation and long-term dependence, will allow Florida families to maintain the right priorities. It will also keep more money available for caring for Florida's children of divorce, instead of enriching family law attorneys.

I am a woman that was divorced in my thirties after a 17 year marriage with two children. I did not ask or recieve alimony even though my attorney quickly advised me that I was entitled. He told me it would be expensive but my ex would end up paying for his fees. Of course he wanted a large retainer to get started. I took the high road and declined. I had little more than a one year vocational degree. I not only survived but I thrived. I never collected a penny from the government or was a burden to the tax payers. I went on to become a successful business woman and I am proud that I did so. Now I have met a man that is strapped with permanent alimony for the rest of his life to a woman that never even attempted to educate herself or otain any kind of employment skills even though they had no children for the first 12 years of marriage. Their one and only child is grown now but he has nothing left after alimony to help her with college expenses. He has faced 5 job loses and pay decreases in the last five years due to his industry. Sadly his attorney advised him to sign a non modifiable agreement. He has no recourse to go for a reduction due to his loss of employment. He has exausted all assets and now faces contemt and jail while she works and has a significant other. She has no mercy and will go after him if he misses one payment. Unemployment won't even pay his monthy obligation to her. How wrong is that?
So yes, there needs to be some changes, big ones!

In 2000 I met a man and fell in love. He was divorced as was I. I had two small children and received very little child support, but that did not matter to me. I was raised in an era of equality and knew with determination and hard work, we would be just fine. I went to school, became a registered nurse and made a nice life for myself and my children. When I met this man, he explained to me he was paying lifetime alimony, a concept I did not understand but it did not matter to me, I wasn't in it for the money. Our relationship grew and we were married. My husband has now reached retirement age, but retirement is not an option. I have watched my husband suffer through heart disease and cancer but not able to take time from work to heal, permanent alimony doesn't give "sick days". I now understand that if something happens to my husband and he is unable to make these payments, my income will be used to continue these payments. This means that all of the hard work I've done to make a life for myself and my children will go to a woman whom I have never met, who has no children with my husband, who owns several properties and takes lavish vacations. I can only hope that my daughter has seen that her life is not decided by her marital status, and should she decide to end a marriage that she can reinvent herself and move forward. I can't imagine the lack of self-esteem of a woman being told she has nothing to offer outside of a marriage. The Florida laws are demeaning to women and unfair to men. I hope I do not have to watch the man I love work himself to death just because a marriage did not work

Alimony in and of itself is a disgrace. I am not referring to child support, but thank God people with this alimony mentality weren't around Abe Lincoln when he worked to free slaves. Those are the sort of people who would have told Lincoln he can't free the slaves because they don't have any skills. Good Lord! Grow up and take responsibility for yourself people. Marriage, education, children - they are INDIVIDUAL choices you make and you should live with on your on. This sense of entitlement America seems to thrive on is destroying us. Evidently that is why the M&M attorneys (you know who they are) who encourage us to file frivolous lawsuits anywhere we can are thriving. Let's start reclaiming the real America by ending permanent alimony and progress over the next four years to end all alimony - providing enough time for alimony recipients to take accountability, get an education if they don't have one and move on.

Permanent alimony is the most unfair and unbalanced law in existence. It is a lottery win for the payee and a living nightmare of involuntary servitude for the payor. Even ones children grow up and become adults and are no longer the Legal responsibility of their parents. What logic would lead you to believe that and ADULT ex-spouse of many years ago is entited to full LIFETIME support?

Really ? in the Keys I wonder why???

This Mr Manz......is a Caricature of himself.......

Alimony should be a rehabilitative measure, not a permanent “gravy train punishment” aimed at the ex-spouse. When it comes to Alimony, some woman CHOOSE to become the “conveniently” weaker sex and our antiquated court system still panders to this belief. Woman have come such a long way and this type of sham perpetuates the “weaker sex” myth. I dare anyone to tell a woman that she is weak and has less rights in ANY OTHER situation. There are no Academy Awards for these court dramas, but it seems to convince the judge to award large sums of permanent alimony. Minor Children need support not capable Adult Women. These women are a disgrace to all of womankind - especially to those of us who chose to educate ourselves and obtain careers to support our families. Use your alimony to obtain an education in a career that you can be proud of --or are you more hung up on punishing your ex-spouse? What empowers you more? What a shame!

A Rebuttal to Mr. David Manz

I will stipulate that FAR is a special interest group, whose aim is to ensure fair and equitable provisions for individuals and families facing divorce, just as the Family Law Section of the Florida Bar is a special interest group whose aim is to maintain the status quo of Florida’s current antiquated alimony laws. Remember that factor when deciding whose side of the story to support; you only have to follow the money.

By advocating change in Florida’s alimony laws, FAR only wishes to establish reasonable guidelines so that all parties may move on with the new lives that divorce brings. Since when is supporting a former spouse for life divorce? As far as being a threat to the Florida Legislature, I believe that Mr. Manz is reaching for the drama of final arguments in a court case.

The example of a spouse who stays home to raise children, forgoing the pursuit of their own career and having the ability to build up their own retirement assets just does not exist to the extent it did forty or fifty years ago. That example is now the exception, not the rule. In the rare instance of this scenario, the operative phrase in Mr. Manz’s comments is “this spouse ‘may’ be left without the ability to support herself or himself”, not “this spouse ‘shall’ be left without the ability to support herself or himself” and the only “broad, adverse impacts and unintended consequences” would be a potential loss of income in the form of outrageous retainers and contingency fees to the divorce lawyers of Florida. Again, follow the money.

Mr. Manz states, “moreover, unless agreed to by the parties, permanent alimony is always modifiable if either spouse demonstrates a substantial change in circumstances.” What he fails to mention is that most family law attorneys will not assist in divorce modification cases without a significant retainer, usually in the neighborhood of $10,000 or higher depending on the “complexity” of your situation, or that modifications are rarely granted by the courts. Are you following the money?

Mr. Manz claims “changes to current alimony laws would strain our already overwhelmed court system and ultimately increase Floridians’ dependence on social programs by forcing predominantly women and children into state-run programs and services” when the opposite is more likely to happen as can be seen in Massachusetts, where alimony reform similar to the goals of FAR has just been put into law. Follow that money!

Why are some stakeholders working so hard to force these revisions to Florida’s alimony laws? The answer is simple: Before divorce is considered, all parties should realize that at some point in time in near future, they must be responsible for their own well-being and that their new lives are most likely not going to be able to be sustained at the former level of the marriage. It’s called personal responsibility and accountability.

The Florida House supported these changes and overwhelmingly passed HB 549, but unfortunately, the Florida Senate rejected the efforts of FAR, standing up for Florida’s family law attorneys instead. The people of Florida should lambast their state senators and demand that Florida’s alimony laws be brought into the 21st Century.

Thank you for covering this very important issue. Permanent Alimony does not permit families to heal and move forward with their lives. Alimony should be a rehabilitative tool not a long-term entitlement.

Wow!! With all due respect Mr Manz; you have been drinking your own cool aid far too long!! Tell me sir; in my case I was forced to pay permanent alimony to a college educated woman in excellent physical and mental health. Who holds two professional licenses and was successfully running a small business. Prior to trial she closed her business then had her millinaire boyfriend get her a job as(in Judge John Phillips words) volunteer underemployed office helper earning $8.50 an hour. How does she "lack the ability" to support herself?? The current laws are punitive and harken back to a day when women had no opportunities outside the home. A recent article, The End Of Men, docummneted that for the first time in US history, the balance of the workforce tipped toward woman, who now hold a majority of the nation's jobs. The working class is slowly turning into a matriarchy, with men increasingly absent from the home and making all the decisions. Of the 15 job catagories projected to grow the most in the next decade in the US, all but two are occupied primarily by woman. The "special interest group" you refer to does not seek an end to alimony; only permanent alimony. To say the children will be harmed with reform is bunk since child support is it's own entity. I have one in college and one about to graduate high school. My house was foreclosed and I can not help my son with college expenses because of the support I have to pay; support that puts a roof over the head of a millionaire thatlives with my ex and 16 year old daughter!! How does NOT paying lifetime alimony hurt them? No sir; it's designed to hurt me, the payor. My ex soon after trial had her millionaire boyfriend move in with her. Cohabitation is an event that allows for modification; tell me sir, how successfull are those trials? I have no problem in paying support for a period of time to allow for an ex spouse to adjust to rentering the workforce but what is equitable about giving half of a military retirement and half of my primary employer retirement then continuing to pay alimony from the half that remains once I reach mandatory federal retirement? There are convicted murders that serve shorter state sentences. I divorced a 46 year old woman at the age of 50 and will have to pay her longer than the length of the marriage! No sir! The laws need to be changed and the fact that Florida (in your words) "having the most progressive (liberal) laws" is not a badge of honor for this state. Nation wide laws are changing and Florida needs to follow!! Indentured servitude is un-constitutional the last time I checked. The only wards of the state are people under court orders to pay these lifetime sentences!!

Many of us condemned to permanent alimony have the same issues. Here are a few. First, alimony should never be required “until you die”. At least allow people to retire in peace. Second, unless disabled or unemployable, one ex-spouse should not be able to party while the other is made to work. If one does not want to work, at least impute their potential earnings when calculating alimony. Third, enact guidelines so we know what to expect and can avoid having to pay two attorneys in what is often a futile attempt to reduce alimony payments.

Divorce lawyers will claim you can stop alimony at retirement. You decide. Here is what the divorce lawyer who heads the Senate Judiciary Committee inserted into the bill, deleting the paragraphs granting the right to retire. First, one must prove that it is customary for those in your industry to retire at age 67, when darn near everyone I know must do some kind of part time work to keep from eating cat food. Second, in order to retire one must prove that they have already quit work and promise that they will never work again. (Please see cat food comments above.) Third, one must document their health to the judge, because being in good health or being very ill must have some relationship to what is right or wrong about retiring. And, finally, one must justify to the court their “motivation” for retiring. Not even the judges know what that means.

As is obvious, their goal is that one must always retain a lawyer to present their case, and, in all likelihood, one will be denied and never understand why, but will be encouraged to try, try again, for another $5,000 retainer.

This must be stopped. I can only hope that the many honorable family attorneys will take the time to vote within the BAR to make the laws more equitable, and to outvote the minority who place their own income above the needs of the public.

Would you teach your children to depend on you for the rest of your lives.? Would you want your young adult children to NOT be financially responsible for themselves? Would you want your young adult children to live beyond their means? I am sure you would say no, so why do you who receive permanent alimony live your life like this. I have been divorced for 13 years, raised two children, and do not, or have not, and never wanted to receive alimony. I do not depend on my Ex or his wife for money for any reason even though he makes much more money than I do. Shame on you who receive permanent alimony for not being responsible for yourself. Where is your pride?

Family law in this state = a JOKE!!!!!